Charge controler on a network

[Brian McGowan]

I own an Outback FM80. After talking with the manufacturer, I have come to the realization that there is no way to put this on a regular network like any other piece of equipment so that I can communicate with it and gather information from it. Is there any charge controller out there that does communicate over a network? I would like for all of my equipment to be able to go on a network. I can't believe that in this day at our level of technology that everything doesn't go on a network. Outback only offers the option to purchase for approximately $250.00 an option that will allow me to communicate with it using RS232.
I have to admit that I have been disappointed with the lack of an integrated system kind of mentality in this industry. I find there should be features or option boxes that are simply not thought about by manufacturers in this industry and I find it rather puzzling.

[Rob Keller]

There are many networked systems out there... midnite solar comes to mind,shnieder electric, ,these will communicate with the gen set /inverter,and the wind turbines/hydro and so on.All is routed thru a wireless hub to your computer and can evan be monitored from your smart fone.just two among others.

[Brian McGowan]

Midnite solar has some interesting stuff. I actually have two of their circuit breaker boxes. Schneider seems to be grid tied stuff only and no charge controllers. Thanks for the heads up.

[Rob Beckers]

MidNite's Classic controllers can be monitored over the Internet for sure. I like their controllers, very nicely made and easy to use (despite having dozens of settings you can tweak things with). Great support too (from personal experience).

Schneider owns Xantrex, and Xantrex makes off-grid inverters/charge controllers. I've not tried those on the Internet myself.

-RoB-

[Brian McGowan]

Schneider owns Xantrex. Very interesting. I am somewhat familiar with that brand. If course I am stuck with the outback for now and cash is not plentiful enough to just up and get another charge controller. I will look into these others though because I will have to do something.
One of the reasons I am looking into networked devices is my desire to have a single brain in charge of my entire system. I need to control dump loads, low voltage disconnects, inverters and other pieces of equipment as well as analog inputs to monitor things like current shunts for both incoming and outgoing power. All of these devices exist now but they all have their own brain, sensors and opinions of what the battery voltage might be. I need for one brain to be in charge of all of this stuff. It would make the most sense for the charge controller to do this but nobody seems to be interested in making this happen. I would rather not but I do program equipment that could easily do this and as long as I can talk to this stuff I can and will if I am forced to in order to get one single integrated system.
The other thing I am currently looking for is a pure sine inverter that can handle the voltages that my nickel iron batteries charge at which can range as high as 17 volts. My current inverter will cut out at 15 volts which was a problem even when I was running FLAs. I had dump loads but had the outback programed the only way it could to trigger at a voltage and then run for a given period of time after reaching a lower voltage. On sunny days it would kick back on when the voltage came back up but it would always get over 15 volts for a few milliseconds which was all it took to trip the inverter off.

[Rob Keller]

Ive run across inverters on the net, cant place the name-brand(not cheap stuff) and found some that would take between 10.5 and 30-dc volt input,,I think I ran across them on ebay , ill look again and if i find them ill link you up..Im sure it wasnt a dream...lol

@Brian, can you tell me where you got your nickel irons?,, are they 1.2 volt cells ?...how much and for what, ive found a 300 amp hour 24 volt bank for 8000.00 US dollars....it seems allot ..but for life time batteries??? its really a small price for the prepper minded , OK I will revise that its frikken expensive, and will kill me , but to be dead in the water in the winter in the wilds of the north is worse than poverty...or death...hehe...this will be my next big ticket item, any advice would be great..thanks.....My cheap 40amp windy nation mppt c/c has a nickel iron setting...hmmm.

[Rob Beckers]

The other thing I am currently looking for is a pure sine inverter that can handle the voltages that my nickel iron batteries charge at which can range as high as 17 volts. My current inverter will cut out at 15 volts which was a problem even when I was running FLAs. I had dump loads but had the outback programed the only way it could to trigger at a voltage and then run for a given period of time after reaching a lower voltage. On sunny days it would kick back on when the voltage came back up but it would always get over 15 volts for a few milliseconds which was all it took to trip the inverter off.

What size inverter do you need? The Magnums go up to 17V DC for the battery, possibly the other 'big brands' too, didn't check.

-RoB-

[Brian McGowan]

I am currently running a 2.5K/5K PSW Chinese (or other Asian) inverter. I guess I would need something equivalent. The biggest load I need to turn over is the 1/2HP motor on my compressor. That may happen when the fridge kick on or is defrosting though among other things. Would be nice if it would go above 34 volts input in the event that I get a second bank and move to a 24 volt system. Two banks in series charged at 17 volts per bank would be 34 volts.

[Rob Keller]

What size inverter do you need? The Magnums go up to 17V DC for the battery, possibly the other 'big brands' too, didn't check.

-RoB-
Wondering...are magnum and magna-sine the same company??

[Brian McGowan]

Magnum was the brand recommended by the person who sold me the batteries. He also sells Magna-sine as well as others.

[Rob Beckers]

Looks like they are one and the same...
A little Web search shows those Magnasine inverters looking suspiciously like Magnum inverters. The name sounds familiar. Maybe Magnum was calling their sine wave inverter line "Magnasine" before moving to more generic naming?

-RoB-

[Chris Olson]

One of the reasons I am looking into networked devices is my desire to have a single brain in charge of my entire system. I need to control dump loads, low voltage disconnects, inverters and other pieces of equipment as well as analog inputs to monitor things like current shunts for both incoming and outgoing power.

The Conext ComBox from Schneider Electric does all that and more. All the system components, including inverter, solar charge controllers, automatic generator starting, etc are able to be monitored from remote location or from PC on the local network.

The ComBox provides all the system configuration and control functions available at the SCP (System Control Panel), and many more config options the SCP does not have. It logs energy consumed by loads, energy from genset(s), both PV input and DC output power from solar charge controllers, energy stored in and used from the batteries, and energy used from or sold to the grid if you have a grid-tied system. It allows complete interaction with and correction of system faults or warnings from remote location, including shutting down, starting, restarting, configuring and putting individual components into Standby Mode.

The interface to it is web-based so it uses your normal everyday web browser to interact with it, and is completely platform independent (works on Mac, Linux, Windows, and even tablet computers and mobile phones). It does not require any special application on your computer or mobile device, although Schneider does provide a free app for the Android operating system on tablets. It also provides a path to update firmware in any system component hooked to Xanbus.

It emails you a system yield report every day, and sends you an email if there is any system fault or warning, and the email tells you what the problem is and what a recommended solution to the problem is.

Just to give you an idea of its capabilities, when we were sailing in the Caribbean, using my little Samsung Galaxy Tab2 7.0 tablet computer, I could log into our system at home in Northern Wisconsin and start or stop our gensets from San Andres in Central America, or instantly evaluate battery SOC, and look at days, weeks or months worth of battery charging vs discharging history.

However, for off-grid systems Schneider Electric does not mess with 12V. Their smallest system is 4.0kVA 24V.

I was a beta tester on the ComBox for Schneider for months before it was released to the general public. Many months ago I did a basic video that shows some of its energy logging capabilities:

http://youtu.be/OurZS1As56Q

[Ralph Day]

I watched the video Chris...skipped through some of it, but didn't notice any wind input information. Is there any way you can figure the wind input? Any customizeable screens? Maybe just by battery input minus solar and generator? Looks like an almost all in one package.

Not ready for the big inverter change, still going strong on my 2004 SW4048. The rinky dink SWWP H80 is seized again, needs bearings...again. Tilt down, remove, replace bearings, re-install. It could be a 1 day job if everything was ready, but probably not. Replacement? Bergey 1kw...$5000 USD, then shipping, crossing the border, taxes etc. With utility power at 15cents /kwhr, yearly production of under 700kwhrs it's about 70 years for "break even". That's not the deciding factor about replacement of course, it's whether we want to continue on with wind in the mix. Maybe more pv (the kind that works off moon and starlight would be ideal).

Ralph

[Chris Olson]

Ralph, there's many comparisons you can do, including battery charge vs discharge history for over 10 years, or comparing battery discharge/charge to PV input, etc.. Every parameter logged in the system can be manipulated to analyze data and make decisions on if the the system is working properly, or you need more PV, or you need to manage generators differently, etc.. The system stores Custom Logs on a micro SD at up to 5 second resolution in CSV format. It runs off Xanbus power and only draws about 7 watts nominal, 30 watts peak during processing of log rollovers, approximately equivalent to the SCP power draw on the system.

That video was taken shortly after the system was released to the general public and we are now able to track and log external power sources such as wind or DC genset input. I continue to do off-grid beta testing for Schneider and am bound by NDA. But suffice it to say there is lots more coming that you would never dream you could do in managing and operating an off-grid system.

The ComBox basically replaces the old XW Gateway, XW Config Tool, and Firmware Updater in one unit. It also replaces the old SCP with a wireless Android tablet touch screen computer to interact with your system on either the local network, or from remote location over secure connection using VPN.

Xanbus is basically Modbus over CAN. And the ComBox has a RS485 ModBus port on it. The protocols all used to be secret with Xantrex. Schneider has released the protocols for developers, free of charge, so external Modbus devices can interact with the system.

And it is not only for off-grid. It works with Schneider Xanbus-based grid-tie systems too.

[Brian McGowan]

OK so I downloaded the manual and started through it. It seems to be mostly oriented towards Xantrex equipment. I also am wondering if there is the ability to add like 8 dry contact relays and 8 analog inputs. I think I need to use the dry contact relays for low voltage disconnects where I can program below what voltage I want them to disconnect and I want to be able to add a debounce so that it must be below that voltage for a given period of time like 5 or 10 seconds so that when there are sudden short draws and the voltage dips for a couple of seconds they don't disconnect. I also want to be able to program when they come back on. I also want to be able to set each one at a different voltage so things are turned off from least important to most important and they come back on in the reverse order. I also want to be able to use other relays for dump loads and for turning the different inverters I have on and off. I want to be able to have loads of different current draws that I can turn on and off in a way that allows me to add together to equal the amount of power I need to dump. For this I need analog inputs to measure voltage across current shunts to know how much power is coming from various sources and out through the various loads so I can use the most power I can harvest. I want this device to be the only "brain" in charge of the whole system. Right now I have 3 devices I am using for low voltage disconnects, a charge controller, a modified sine inverter, a pure sine inverter and a small grid tied inverter. Each of these devices senses battery voltage and every one of them has a different idea of what the voltage is. I need one brain in charge and only one "opinion" of what the voltage is and this device making all the decisions. Does that device have any of those capabilities?

[Chris Olson]

The ComBox is only for Conext systems and way too expensive with more capabilities than you need. What you need is a couple inexpensive Morningstar RD-1 relay drivers:
http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/relay-driver/

[Brian McGowan]

OK that looks interesting. I will check it out.

[Chris Olson]

Reading thru your description of what you want, it sounds like primarily automated system functions using relays based on battery voltage. That's what the Morningstar RD-1 is designed for and does. It is a programmable logic controller with four relay channels.