Educating the Younger Generation(s)

[Joe Blake]

I like the thinking behind this...

http://www.gizmag.com/power-hog-power-meter/11054/

Joe

[Rob Beckers]

That is a neat idea! Though I have a hard time seeing today's kids make use of something like this (running the TV or video games is after all a god-given-right, who's going to pay money for that!). We may hope...

On a similar note: I gets lots of prospective customers that want to make their own power, either to 'do the right thing' or because they are angry at the power company for some reason. First we look at their power bills, and more often than not they are the type of consumer that is well over 1000 kWh/month. We then talk about saving power (which can be a hard thing in a house that's full of recessed halogens that can't be replaced without major construction work, and has electrical water heaters). Next is how much it would cost to replace their electricity use with renewables, usually solar in this region. That's when they are shocked and I never hear from them again. Honesty doesn't make for good sales.

Right now I'm visiting my in-laws in Turkey. Their energy footprint is quite a bit less than what we're used to in North America. Gasoline is twice the price that it is in Canada. Consequently everyone uses the bus for going into town, even if you have a car. Lots of compact fluorescents around too (though they haven't figured out yet that they exist in colors other than blue-white).

-RoB-

[Ralph Day]

Hi Rob
If you get too many of the "looky lews" you could do what many installers do. Charge a consultation fee, which would be applied against the cost of a person's installation:amazed:. That just might deter the least motivated of potential customers...and keep your valuable time valuable, to you at least.:eek:

Ralph

[Joe Blake]

If you don't do it already, just whip out your electronic pocket organiser and make a great play of consulting your diary to see where a suitable window is open and say well, if you're prepared to wait until ... it'll cost you so much, but I can do it sooner if I cancel another appointment but it'll cost you more. Help sort the wheat from the chaff.

:bigsmile:

Joe

[Brian McGowan]

I measure in kWh/day so GAK!! that's 33.3kWh/day or more? When I moved into this house it was using about 25kWh/day. Now I use between 10 and 15 depending on the season and I'm not happy it's that much. That being said, this house is totally electric except oil heat. Even hot water is electric. My first goal was to get below 16kWh/day because at that point I actually have enough roof space to handle enough panels to cover that. (20 at 200W = 4kW = $20K) Also because that is about 2/3 of the starting number. Also because at that point I could theoretically (but probably not actually) run the house on a standard GM alternator hooked to a lawn mower engine. (1HPish=746W*24hrs=17.9kWh and add some loss or save some fuel) In an emergency situation I would not be making hot water or running the clothes dryer (only 3 times a week anyway) so this number gets smaller by another 4kWh/day average and makes running the remainder of the house possible with an alternator some batteries and a big inverter. I could possibly keep my self alive for a few days even running the heater. I am still looking for a 1 cylinder diesel engine for this so I can run WVO. Last time I went looking I ended up with a diesel Mercedes.

Brian

[Rob Beckers]

Brian, talking about 1 cylinder diesels: Take a look at the "Lister" knock-offs. These are now made in China (the original is no longer made as far as I know), they will run on almost anything, and are virtually indestructible. If memory serves me Ralph Murphy (another GTP member) has one of those.

-RoB-

[Joe Blake]

I recently purchased a small power meter

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS6115

And have been going crazy measuring every watt consumed.

Getting some VERY interesting results. I had always thought my mains powered refrigerator would be the power hog, (ignoring my air-from-water condenser). However, taken over 85.55 hrs (at below 7.0 degrees) it cost 52.21 cents (.610 cents/hr) and consumed 4.1 kw/h.

My "vampire" losses (ie devices on "standby" or that have timers) draw 20 watts. If I remove the non-essential vampires it comes down to 11 watts.

My electric kettle costs about 1 cent to boil 2 litres of water.

And my electric bread maker costs about 5 cents for a 500 gram loaf of bread. But given that to buy a similar loaf at the shop costs over twice as much as home made bread, it's a cost I'm happy to carry.

And just to complete the figures, to run my computer with screen and two 12 volt freezers costs just over 1 cent per hour, including being solar boosted during daylight hours.

My last (January) power bill indicates my household consumes about 10 kWh daily, which costs me about $1.58.

However our state government has foreshadowed massive power cost increases in the near future, hence my sudden interest in measuring things.

:D

I've made moves such as using a gas heated kettle instead of electric, which is a bit slower, more efficient, and I bought a camping oven (Dutch oven) which I'm using on my gas stove as well. I'm still experimenting, but even baked bread in it, although I used my bread maker to mix the dough, then froze it, baking a "lunch roll" sized batch.

Winter is approaching, but now that I've virtually finished insulating the house, there will be no need for any artificial heating.

The water condenser proved a bit of a surprise, in more ways than one. The handbook tells me it's supposed to consume 450 watts, however the meter tells my it consumes over 700 W. Further, when I decided to replace all the filters after 2 years service, I discovered that the reverse osmosis filter was missing!!! So all that yummy water I'd been drinking wasn't as good as it could have been. Luckily, there's an ultraviolet light steriliser to kill pathogens, but it was still an unpleasant surprise. I'm now thinking again about using solar power to run the thing. Might not be worthwhile.


Joe

[Brian McGowan]

Rob,
Yes I would love to have a lister clone but the price and weight are major drawbacks for me at this time. I didn't buy a forklift battery recently due to the weight. It is 560# and I am afraid I won't be able to move it my self and it is very tall for it's width (2 feet tall and 8 inches wide) so I was afraid if I knocked it over I would never be able to get it upright my self and it would spill all over the place while I ran to get a coupld of neighbors to help me. I have been shopping the mud sales in the area for a used diesel but no luck yet. I will probably end up with this or something like it:

http://www.carrollstream.net/4.4HP%20WATER-COOLED%20DIESEL%20ENGINE.htm

Even this is 68lbs which I can deal with and more than $400.00 with shipping which is beyond my recently severely restricted budget.

Since the budget is restricted I have decided my next projects will be a solar oven big enough to handle my 5qt. crock pot and a solar still to make clean potable water out of any water I have laying around.

I want to make the solar oven out of an old propane grill so it has a stand and I can secure it from the animals during the day when it is cooking. I will line the inside of the bottom with something highly reflective and coat the outside with some kind of insulation and then make a cover with a large glass window on an angled frame that I can turn around 180deg to get 2 different angles depending on where the sun is tracking during that season. This will allow me to cook crock pots in the summer without heating up the kitchen or using any power. People even bake bread in these things. I found a website with lots of recipies.

The solar still will have a float valve to feed water into the evaporator continously as required for unattended operation.

Brian

[Joe Blake]

Since the budget is restricted I have decided my next projects will be a solar oven big enough to handle my 5qt. crock pot and a solar still to make clean potable water out of any water I have laying around.

I want to make the solar oven out of an old propane grill so it has a stand and I can secure it from the animals during the day when it is cooking. I will line the inside of the bottom with something highly reflective and coat the outside with some kind of insulation and then make a cover with a large glass window on an angled frame that I can turn around 180deg to get 2 different angles depending on where the sun is tracking during that season. This will allow me to cook crock pots in the summer without heating up the kitchen or using any power. People even bake bread in these things. I found a website with lots of recipies.


Brian,

I've found old CDs are marvellous for making reflectors. If I want to make a huge flat reflector I simply use a paper guillotine to cut* them into a hexagon shape and they pack together very well.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/saxeharp/general/Picture21.jpg

With a bit of ingenuity, you could build a roughly parabolic reflector to heat up water going through a pipe.

Because the reflective side is protected by clear plastic, they will stand up to a small amount of dirt etc, but if they get too badly damaged, just cut some more and replace them. Or alternatively you could edge-tape two of them back to back to protect the reflective layer.

I mean, who DOESN'T have a bunch of of CDs/DVDs lying around?

:bigsmile:

Joe

*When you cut them, put the reflective side face down on the guillotine. This minimises the risk of the blade lifting the reflective coating.

[Brian McGowan]

OK now that is a great idea! And with the plastic coating it'll probably clean up easier than tin foil. Then 2 thoughts came into my head. Find a way to cut 1.5" diameter disks out of one CD and you could glue those disks to the holes on the other CDs to make up an additional 1.75sqin and I bet if you warmed them a little they could be kind of formed into a shape like a parabola or half cylinder. I don't know if the disks are worth the effort.
The further beauty of this is I could go on freecycle and advertise I want old dead CDs and I bet I would get enough to light up the whole neighborhood.
I am liking this idea and a guy at work may have an old gas grill for me. I may try to make this project totally out of recycled materials.
Thanks Joe. I'll post pictures when I get into the project.
Brian
P.S. I have long thought about ways to increase the efficiency of my solar air heaters. A big reflector is a good way but I didn't want to use glass and mylar would never stand up to the wind. I have tried the mylar when I got a piece for free. If I glued a bunch of CDs onto something ridgid I would have that reflector.

[Joe Blake]

Then 2 thoughts came into my head. Find a way to cut 1.5" diameter disks out of one CD and you could glue those disks to the holes on the other CDs to make up an additional 1.75sqin and I bet if you warmed them a little they could be kind of formed into a shape like a parabola or half cylinder. I don't know if the disks are worth the effort.



If'n ya wanna get REAL finicky, you can use the bits you cut off the edge of the CDs

But probably best to use a heat cutter. A piece of metal pipe heated to red heat should act like a cookie cutter.


The further beauty of this is I could go on freecycle and advertise I want old dead CDs and I bet I would get enough to light up the whole neighborhood.

They may even erect a statue to you.

;)

I am liking this idea and a guy at work may have an old gas grill for me. I may try to make this project totally out of recycled materials.
Thanks Joe. I'll post pictures when I get into the project.

Will look forward to it.

Some further thoughts.

Use the "cookie cutter" to remove the transparent section of the CD. Get some PVC pipe of whatever diameter you have lots of, and drill two small holes, with centres the diameter of the centre gap apart (and the disc you've cut to cover the clear centre of the CD). This next bit depends on the thickness of the "cookie cutter" pipe wall. In theory, the small disc you've cut should have the internal diameter of the cutter, while the hole you've cut from the centre of the CD will have external diameter of the cutter. This should give a gap, or annulus, the width of the pipe. Get some self tapping screws of roughly the diameter of the annulus, place the CD onto the PVC pipe and start the self tappers into the holes in the pipe, then squeeze the small disc into the centre hole, resting on the PVC pipe. When you drive the self tappers home, they should hold both the CD and the centre plug pretty firmly to the PVC pipe. Repeat as required and you should wind up with a line of hexagonal reflectors on each piece of pipe. You can then construct a grid with more pipes, and make it as long/wide as you like. It won't be very rigid, but if you make some "legs" like this:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/saxeharp/bigpanel.jpg


which I assembled for some photo voltaic panels. When the weather turns nasty I just lay it down on the ground.

With the parabola, why not do the same thing but instead of using heat to bend the CDs, bend the PVC pipe, around a template, and make a "reflector tree" with lines of CDs branching out?

I might even make one myself.

:D

Joe

Wow, I MUST be good. I even inspire ME!!

:laugh:

[Joe Blake]

Brian,

Just to carry on my thoughts.

Some 10 or more years ago I built this geo-dome from PVC pipe.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/saxeharp/dome05.jpg

You can gauge the size by the motorcycle, as it was actually meant to house it.

Here's a construction photo.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/saxeharp/dome04.jpg

It strikes me if you built something similar to this (but of a suitable size) and turned it upside down with appropriate bracing, you could line it with reflectors and by suspending say a Dutch oven from a suitable suspension system you could have a dandy solar cooker or solar boiler.*

Bear in mind however that this is a hemisphere and not a parabola so you would probably need to adjust the focus of each individual reflector to get the most concentrated heat, but with a cylinder as the aiming point, it wouldn't need to be too accurate.

I'm currently (ie the last 4 years!!!) building a larger dome with a different construction method.

Will keep you informed.

Joe

*On edit: Don't bother building the "riser wall" which you can see laying on the ground. Just stop at the "equator".

J

[Brian McGowan]

More along the lines of this thread. Get the kids to compete with each other.

So you don't have to scrounge up the parts yourself.

http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2009/03/26/tweet-a-watt-kits-now-available/

[Joe Blake]

Reducing "vampire losses".

http://www.gizmag.com/100-off-energy-saving-device/11325/


Joe

[Steve Birmingham]

Personally I think the idea is great but at the same time being geared towards children as curious as they can be, encouraging insertion of metal objects anywhere near an electrical outlet could be dangerous!